I live in Finland being an almost retired photojournalist. In finnish papers editors /writing journalists are forced to take more and more pictures using cameras that are bought by companies owning those papers. This has lead to situation where pro shooters are thrown away, fired ending up unemployed.
Consequences are --- the visual quality on pictures has fallen dramatically. At the same time papers go down cause young people cannot take the bad pictures and move to web where visual pictures seem to flourish.
Any ideas / thoughts about this?
Richard RiveraHello Jore. As the British say: “Penny wise, pound foolish.” The newspapers began firing their veteran news photographers and experienced photojournalist because they feel the pinch of less advertising and fewer readers but in the end it is foolish. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/business/media/chicago-sun-times-lays-off-all-its-full-time-photographers.html?_r=0 A great image says so much more than an editor could say. Editors and writers are not image people. Kent, I don't think it's a matter of gear but of training the eye and the brain to capture the image that speaks volumes.
Noncho IlievNowadays everybody is searching for some cheap(or free) pictures, no matter of quality. This is why many great professionals are loosing their jobs. A lot of people think that some good camera is enough and can take amazing pictures without a photographer.
william adamsin usa editors have had reporters take their own pictures for many years instead of using dedicated photographers
many use a cell phone now as it is easier to carry
tv and print use lots of free content sent in by subscribers for free
claire thibaultIn Quebec, we see the same thing. Even television is asking people to send them photos of events for free some are good and many average...! I see photoclubs asking their members to make photos of events without compensation (trade shows, music festivals,...) even sports events are asking photo clubs if some will like to take photos for free! I saw that it goes farther: we had people that ask for weddings and cities asking as well for free photos... So I think that it is a generalized problem for professional photographers that are doing a fantastic work just to make a living. Many retired persons have money and begin photography as a hobby, most of them having professional gear and are giving away their photos to any public organisation or to medias just to see their photos in a newspaper or on the news...this contribute to worsen the problem. :(
Jore PuusaHow do You all feel about it? I mean that this group has 126926 members --are we all for nothing, is photography dead as a profession. I`m 63 years old and seen days when photography was an important profession. But what should a young photographer think these days, find another profession?????
Manal Mubarak ,BAbecause nowadays it is convenient to use cellphone for photography
claire thibaultMaybe convenient but with its limitations: will you publish with cellphone camera photographies on a regular basis? I wouldn't personally. I have a cellphone too but if I want a good photo, I take my camera! If cellphones were as good as professional gear, we should all sell our cameras! And what about television using cellphones as camera, after all they can make video too! So where do we stop? Somebody having the kindness to say to Nikon, Canon, Sony, Panasonic,...to stop producing good cameras and lenses to join the market of cellular photography and video??? ;)
As for young photographer, they better have either another job to help makking a living or having their spouse having a good profession and salary or be rich before beginning their carreer as a photographer! More seriously, I'd say that the very passionate and talented will succeed. What I see is that the number of retired people with good revenues beginning photography will decrease within some years for the other problems, with job uncertainty, due tu economic fluctuations, and less revenues, people will have to downsize their living style and so cellular phone will experience recession too...living is becoming very expensive these days... :)
Pablo RoblesI feel bad for publications. They are loosing readership because of bad quality photos. What makes a person pick up a newspaper or a magazine is the front image. Professional photographers will always find other ways to make money in photography.
Paul OttavianoIt's a problem here in Portland, OR too. The local daily, The Oregonian, has been laying staff off for years and just recently let go of 30 staffers, including photographers. Reporters are being told to use their iPhones. Nobody likes it, and The Oregonian staff is dispirited.
Paul OttavianoAs for the future, the old linear path to success or stability is now very non-linear. Photography is not dead, but one dimensional business plans might be. I'm looking at alternative opportunities in photography, such as guided tours or owning space I can rent out. Multiple income strategies, for sure. Unfortunately, I'm no longer sure about editorial and its re-use in my business plan (see new Time magazine agreement).
Paul OttavianoLast thing I'll add, regarding others wanting free photos, is that I suggest people use a web host like Photodeck. There, when you shoot for yourself, you can have galleries that watermarked, no downloads, no right click copy, and screenshots would be worthless. They can look, and that's it.
claire thibaultThanks Paul, I didn't know Photodeck and I sure will look at it...never use any site to host my photos, only store them on a hard drive which is not connected to internet...I have a very limited trust for internet for my photos...! :)
James Lynchphotojournalism is an undervalued and dying art. Everyone thinks a Journalist with an Iphone is capable of doing it all. If they try to do both tasks, they will diminish the quality of both outputs. Papers just see the bottom line and treat photographers as an expensive addition to the team these days. Very shortsighted.
claire thibaultIndeed James, they are very shortsighted! They just forget that people have HD+ television and monitor and an average photo will look pretty awful on these as well as in a newspaper or magazines! They complaint about loosing readers and I don't think that those simply went to on-line magazine...if their photos are average because they look at their own photos and they would say that theirs may be better...it's the cat running after his tail... :)
Anders BeierTv and newspapers are failing in making news intereesting and people are more and more abandoning Them. Sad but true they need to Think ahead. And for The photographer - adapt. Learn to write and get The advantage of being The Best visually.
cell phones are way past the quality a paper or even a magazine need
Jore PuusaI think it´s not OK if we start to steal writers their profession. Would be nice to adapt- if the substance of the pictures would mean something. But it does not. Money means and cheapest photographer or writer takes the pics. This ruins the profession totally.
Jeff (JD) HageBeing cheap has cause the collapse of the publications. They don't understand that quality costs money. They are too cheap to hire professionals. Now their publications look cheap. Readers don't buy them if they look cheap. If publications don't value photographers why would readers value the publications? This is happening in the broadcast world as well.
kevin haydenMuch the same story in Ireland and where I am now based in France. The "uberization" of so many professions is turning things into "anyone can do it" mentality. And journalists are now working for nothing ie Demotix.
David Graeme-BakerI appreciate the shock and indignation but are you really surprised ? I did a 3 year degree in photography and was a photo-journalist in the 1970s-80s -90s. Good times, but how can you now seriously argue with editors who have less and less money to spend on pictures for print. Print news is dying Photography has become easy Okay they won't get the carefully crafted images that professionals produce but they get what they need and for a cost they can live with. No, I don't like it but I have to accept it. Photo journalism is not a career nowadays. Fine if you go out and shoot a well crafted exclusive story, you can then sell it on and I hope you get a good price. And for those of you naive enough to say that a camera phone is not capable of capturing a good news picture - think again. I became a photographer because I wanted to be a photo-journalist: not an advertising,wedding, or publicity photographer and I had several good years doing it. Times have changed.
Jore Puusaquote cell phones are way past the quality a paper or even a magazine need quote -------------------------- Yes, technically considering raster / resolution. But their small cmos and wide angle make impossible to shoot news using the variety of normal ways to express in photography, for instance rules of DOF and isolating part of the story in picture. Hope this conversation does not turn into technical jargon. The main question is about the moral of writers...and stealing the jobs of photographers.
Tim BarnsleyTerrible situation that has come about through digital tech(EYEPHONES ETC,EVERYONE IS A PHOTOGRAPHER NOWDAYS,EVEN IF THEY ARE RUBBISH!)..I used to work for Fairfax media in Australia for over 20 years as a press photographer and they too are undervaluing what a good image can do to complement a story. I know they have made some of their best photographer redundant and like you say,journos are required to do shooting as well as writing now...I think maybe the only positive is the rise of photo agencies is on the increase as lots of papers source images from them ..good I guess for freelancers like me as I am know living in HanoiVietnam, but I agree,it's a sad state of affairs how print media has become smaller and smaller with the quality going by the wayside !
Jore PuusaIn Finland universities and schools still "produce" photographers and photojournalists. They all go unemployed or start to freelance - having two other jobs to survive. Some youngsters work at McDonalds to be able to shoot for papers. - What should be done now? Photography is more popular than ever, how to say to Young people that it should be avoided as a profession? Is this situation for ever? Do we have any printed papers left in 2026? Why did all this happen really?
Samiran SamantaAround the world, all scenario are almost same. The authority only want the quality,without giving the proper adjustmens . It is really bad and will go for worst scene. But infact my solution is don't make out them, let them do what they want. After understanding their faults (at a certain time later), they will come back to the proper person. Because without perfection, this industry is nothing.
Bruce TaylorSaw the writing on the wall and left photojournalism 18 years ago to be a criminalist/crime lab photographer. Miss the papers everyday but newspaper photojournalism is definitely circling the drain. I think the biggest sacrifice is the lack of ethics when you depend on "citizen" and submitted photos.
David Graeme-BakerCertainly Bruce, I agree that there is a danger with Citizen Reporting/Photography because you can't be sure of provenance of the image nor it's honesty. Having said that I personally know of several professional images that I have seen in the past which were highly suspect. And when images are forged by professionals they're harder to spot. ;-)
claire thibaultHi, I agree with Bruce and David concerning submitted photos by citizen. But now what I see is citizen calling themselves photographers buying all those software like Lightroom, Photoshop, PhaseOne and others. They learned to use them to submit photos to contests and do a pretty job doing it, they compress the image so you can't have the exact history about what they have done to it. They are the kind of citizen that can produce modified images like pros and it will be difficult to detect as well...so ethic forget about it. Having said this, all citizen are not like that and many of them have a minimal personal sense of ethic and just want to submit a wow photo to be publish and have their minute of glory...! This is so sad where we are going! I think that it could take some years but the situation can normalise...at least I hope so. :)
Tracey Gothamit's a sad shame that Iphones are taking over the industry. I, too, know many photographers who graduated with a four year degree and are unemployed or doing a different job.
Christian LeBlancI'd be curious to see more information, if there is any, on the firings - is it a $$$/per picture/article issue it is it a mixture of a few different issues with a convenient excuse ready made. As an example - I prefer Nikon - not particular reason truth be told and I'm sure if I shot on a Canon or some other brand name I would still get the same outcome. Is this a partial case of people.. Well being partial and not wanting to change hats so to speak? I am not in this industry and just truly learning about myself and photography but it doesn't seem like a good outlook knowing how much it costs for new gear even at my beginner level.
Ray Harmacinskithe fact that real high quality images, are no longer a priority in journalism is a huge factor, 90% of the photos published for news articles are cell phone shots.. The majority of photographers make there living now shooting people (graduations, team photos, weddings (and weddings are drying up or are being done by amateurs)
claire thibaultRay, you are right and concerning wedding, people start to chase amateurs in Photo-Club and for free or almost free; it's like: could you ask your members if one of them would be interested or like shooting for a wedding? They do not want a professional photographer neither an experience photographer: they want the cheaper they can get and often it's turn out they will only pay your dinner and want you to photoshop some photos that you may add to your portfolio after all they provide an opportunity to gain more experience...maybe we should pay them...!!!! ;)
Jore PuusaWhen refugees started to pour into Finland about a year ago - the crises produced some racist and fascist sites. Those sites steal all their written material and pictures from Finnish media. Nothing can be done cause the servers are in Spain or USA etc. Now some interviews have gone bad cause people no more let their pictures taken cause they are afraid that the picture is possibly stolen by those criminal sites and used in twisted way. This is one serious problem more, while the industry has more problems it can take..papers are no more trusted..no matter what they did. Pictures are stolen when someone wants, no moral anymore.
claire thibaultThis is a big problem everyone is facing these days...the water drop that make the glass overflows! :)
Brett DunbarIt's all about speed these days, over quality. That's only going to get worse.
If you want to be full time you better be doing weddings, portraits, and senior photos (in general). I don't want to go down that road again.
David Graeme-BakerDon't want to seem so defeatist but I really don't see a way forward for press photography. The writing was on the wall at about the same time as digital cameras took off and the rapid expansion of the internet as a comms medium. Overall I have welcomed those developments but it has had the effect of killing the press photographer although there is still some limited hope for the features photo journalist. God Bless 'em.
Brett DunbarI'll admit, I am a defeatist, LOL. I gave it up. I was in photojournalism, shooting mostly collegiate sports and as demand dwindled (I could give countless examples) I decided to get a full time job in my technical field with a stable job, benefits, and 401k, and keep some of the relationships I had to do freelance work on the side.
Now, I could see if you are in weddings, portraits, senior photos, architectural, etc. photography you can still make a good living. My heart just really is in PJ and I guess for me, financially, it just can't be. I could work for USATSI or contract full-time with the AP, but why? The pay isn't nearly as good as my full time job; nowhere close.
Ray HarmacinskiI don't like doing "Cookie Cutter" photography.. I find no personal satisfaction in it.. It's strictly a cash for services arrangement..I know some people really like doing it, and I know far more who don't. I look at photography more as art
Martin BagerI recently turned in my press card - there is no more money to be made in that business, unfortunately. There are to many amateurs with cameras and therefore millions of free pictures in the world, and no need for us pro shooters in that game any more.
Kemal ATLIPhotography hasn't become easier, it just has become accessible to people who couldn't afford or have the technology available to them before. In old days only people with means were able to have access to good cameras or proper labs. I remember having to wait 2 weeks to have my rolls developed on 7x5 papers and not being able to process them as I can do today. There are some fantastic and talented young photographers out there. It just has become more competitive.
Dennis HillToo bad more companies don't take the same path as Ikea. They retrained their photographers to do digital rendering instead of firing them when they went to computer generated images. Now, we have to re-invent our careers ourselves.
Gary BDennis, Ikea or any other catalog company has to keep their catalog photographers. They may have put digital backs on their 4X5 cameras but they still need the photographers. You are not going to put an armature on a 4x5 camera. They are not going to give up perfect lighting along with the rise, fall, and shift ability of 4x5 to a person shooting with a DSLR.
David HammantAn interesting aside, at a seminar yesterday a couple of editors were bemoaning the poor quality of photography nowadays which they - probably partly correctly - attributed to the internet and the floodgate of poor quality people get used to in social media.
Frank FlavinIt's up to the editors to get high quality images for them to be competitive. They need to tell their publisher. Quality "Sink or Swim".
Tomaž BlejecI'm an old school graphic technician. I know how to make proper books, magazines, leaflets, posters... from DTP to press processes. 25 years ago I was in my first job looking at hand made designs of "great designers" using 2 or 3 different typography and "top photographers" with cropped slides to scan with our equipment. And when we needed "more picture" on their cropped slides or more "liquid design" for several different press material, those "high-end" professionals wasn't capable of doing it. So in years I became a designer and photographer, doing all the designs and photos with one thing in mind: TO BE USED IN MORE THAN ONE OCCASION... Design and photography are no art any more. It is a craft. For the end: every 3rd person is a photographer, every 2nd is a designer and anyone can write text.
the editors get the quality they need and can afford they dont need the perfection artistes doing photog think they should be paid for snapshots
Rick RomanWell, when was the last time I BOUGHT an L.A. Times paper? Newsprint is dead, so we can't expect them to pay us can we? The ARTISTS will survive, the rest will have to find a way. It's a GLUTTED market, everybody and their cousin can snap a crappy pic on their phones and be happy with it...sigh
Jore PuusaJournalism is essential for democracy. Responsible journalists keep the media free. But if money means everything the main ethics of journalism die. I could not live in a world where the only thing that matters is money and how cheap amateur journalists are. They see only the small money they get and fame...and that is the road to untrue.
1 kommentti:
Anonyymi
kirjoitti...
Mahtavaa että keskustelua syntyy joskin toki Linkedin on jo lähtökohtaisesti eri paikka kuin faceboob ja muut "sosiaaliset" mediat.
As the British say: “Penny wise, pound foolish.” The newspapers began firing their veteran news photographers and experienced photojournalist because they feel the pinch of less advertising and fewer readers but in the end it is foolish.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/business/media/chicago-sun-times-lays-off-all-its-full-time-photographers.html?_r=0
A great image says so much more than an editor could say. Editors and writers are not image people.
Kent, I don't think it's a matter of gear but of training the eye and the brain to capture the image that speaks volumes.
many use a cell phone now as it is easier to carry
tv and print use lots of free content sent in by subscribers for free
As for young photographer, they better have either another job to help makking a living or having their spouse having a good profession and salary or be rich before beginning their carreer as a photographer! More seriously, I'd say that the very passionate and talented will succeed. What I see is that the number of retired people with good revenues beginning photography will decrease within some years for the other problems, with job uncertainty, due tu economic fluctuations, and less revenues, people will have to downsize their living style and so cellular phone will experience recession too...living is becoming very expensive these days... :)
Papers just see the bottom line and treat photographers as an expensive addition to the team these days. Very shortsighted.
cell phones are way past the quality a paper
or even a magazine need
I did a 3 year degree in photography and was a photo-journalist in the 1970s-80s -90s.
Good times, but how can you now seriously argue with editors who have less and less money to spend on pictures for print.
Print news is dying
Photography has become easy
Okay they won't get the carefully crafted images that professionals produce but they get what they need and for a cost they can live with.
No, I don't like it but I have to accept it.
Photo journalism is not a career nowadays.
Fine if you go out and shoot a well crafted exclusive story, you can then sell it on and I hope you get a good price.
And for those of you naive enough to say that a camera phone is not capable of capturing a good news picture - think again.
I became a photographer because I wanted to be a photo-journalist: not an advertising,wedding, or publicity photographer and I had several good years doing it.
Times have changed.
cell phones are way past the quality a paper
or even a magazine need
quote
--------------------------
Yes, technically considering raster / resolution. But their small cmos and wide angle make impossible to shoot news using the variety of normal ways to express in photography, for instance rules of DOF and isolating part of the story in picture.
Hope this conversation does not turn into technical jargon.
The main question is about the moral of writers...and stealing the jobs of photographers.
Chicago Sun-Times Lays Off All Its Full-Time Photographers
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/business/media/chicago-sun-times-lays-off-all-its-full-time-photographers.html?_r=0
-
What should be done now?
Photography is more popular than ever, how to say to Young people that it should be avoided as a profession?
Is this situation for ever?
Do we have any printed papers left in 2026?
Why did all this happen really?
And when images are forged by professionals they're harder to spot. ;-)
If you want to be full time you better be doing weddings, portraits, and senior photos (in general). I don't want to go down that road again.
Overall I have welcomed those developments but it has had the effect of killing the press photographer although there is still some limited hope for the features photo journalist. God Bless 'em.
Now, I could see if you are in weddings, portraits, senior photos, architectural, etc. photography you can still make a good living. My heart just really is in PJ and I guess for me, financially, it just can't be. I could work for USATSI or contract full-time with the AP, but why? The pay isn't nearly as good as my full time job; nowhere close.
25 years ago I was in my first job looking at hand made designs of "great designers" using 2 or 3 different typography and "top photographers" with cropped slides to scan with our equipment.
And when we needed "more picture" on their cropped slides or more "liquid design" for several different press material, those "high-end" professionals wasn't capable of doing it.
So in years I became a designer and photographer, doing all the designs and photos with one thing in mind: TO BE USED IN MORE THAN ONE OCCASION...
Design and photography are no art any more. It is a craft.
For the end: every 3rd person is a photographer, every 2nd is a designer and anyone can write text.
the editors get the quality they need and can afford
they dont need the perfection artistes doing photog think they should be paid for snapshots